The Story of Deborah Choi

There are thousands of cases of those who have escaped, or have attempted to escape North Korea.  This is a very condensed account of just one of them.

 

In North Korea, Deborah grew up among a regime that is the most restricted in the world.  If anyone criticized them, it would mean a torturous labor camp or immediate death.  Food was very scarce, and many freedoms, including travel is outlawed.  Any belief in God was outlawed and of course having a Bible meant death.  Only the “great leader” could be worshipped.

 

Deborah was chosen for the “pleasure squad” as a teenager--a group of girls nurtured for the pleasure of their leader.  After 6 months nurturing, getting ready for the “great leader”, she was released and sent back home with no explanation.  At the time she was upset about this.

 

After secretly learning about how good life really was outside of North Korea, she decided to attempt the escape.  Successfully reaching China was only the beginning of the escape.  The Chinese, as well as other countries, are paid by North Korea to turn in escapees.  While there, and still in hiding, she was very lucky to learn what a computer was and learned about the internet.  She came across a South Korean pastor that was going to smuggle North Koreans out of China to America.  Miraculously, she found them the very hour they were leaving, even though most had been there much longer.  

 

Then was the long and dangerous over-land trip to Thailand.  She noticed the others reading the Bible and praying.  She quicky criticized them, telling them not to believe in fairy tales.  But she recognized that many times they came very close to capture when the pastor and the others could only turn to prayer. Again, they were faced with condemnation from her.  But as she saw their determination to pray every morning, her heart began to be softened. 

 

Their very last river crossing to freedom, from Laos (another country very willing to turn them in) to Thailand, turned out to be extremely dangerous.  They were forced to cross in broad daylight.  Even at night many would be shot in their crossing attempt.  Deborah had no choice but to cross with them.  In the daylight, with a very loud motor, Deborah finally just looked heavenward.  She said, God, if there is a God, please help us.  We have come a long way and just want to be free.  I don’t know how you can, but please help us.  As she was looking up, she felt a drop on her face, then another and another.  Then out of nowhere it began to absolutely downpour.  To the point that they could barely tell where they were going, and the sound of the rain overtook the sound of the motor.

 

She could not deny their escape was miraculous.  She eventually made it to the United States, studied the Bible and became Christian.  She is now married with 3 children.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RynC5IPnkRY&t=1554s

 

@deborahchoifromnorthkorea

What about other churches?

Joseph Smith’s first vision tells us, speaking of other churches, “all their creeds were an abomination in his sight, that those professors were all corrupt.” (JS History 1:19)

 

Those of other churches often take this very personal.  To them we are claiming their church is an abomination.  But that is not what this says.  Instead, it clearly states that their creeds were an abomination.  This is really a huge difference.  The creeds took away God’s fathership, but instead made him an essence, metaphysically combined with Jesus and the Holy Ghost.  This altered the very nature of God, presenting Him as an unreachable entity rather than a personal Father, and often included unscriptural concepts. We are no longer his children, but simply made out of nothing. They outlawed a belief in a preexistence, baptism for the dead, and created fixed theological boundaries, which prevented ongoing revelation.  This all caused widespread corruption, establishing false doctrines and created divisions that led people away from the gospel.

 

As for the corrupt professors, knowing Joseph’s history further tells us that these are the specific religious leaders that Joseph had communed with--not all religious professors. The word "those" is used rather than "the".

 

But all this does not speak of the churches themselves.  More specifically, the people of those churches.

 

Some revelations received before the church was organized are very telling.  For examble, D & C 10:55, “Whosoever belongeth to my church need not fear, for such shall inherit the kingdom of heaven.” This was written before the LDS church was organized.  It cannot refer only to LDS members as there were none.

 

Some will still bring up other scriptures to drive home the point of how we look badly on others.

 

 “There are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations.” (1 Nephi 14:10)  

 

Assumptions must be made to make this scripture look as they wish.  But Dallin H. Oaks, speaking on this very scripture, breaks it down for us.  He tells us that “churches” here is not referring to institutional churches, but instead those who belong to the church of the Lamb of God here, are “all who believe in God and seek to serve him according to their best understanding.”  Clearly, many others not of our faith are included in “the church of the Lamb of God”. See here to see his talk and learn other points.

 

To take it even a step further, The Book of Mormon teaches us that non-members can be considered to be even more blessed than members.  “The Lamanites… are more righteous than you.  Their husbands love their wives, and their wives love their husbands; and their husbands and their wives love their children; and their unbelief and their hatred towards you is because of the iniquity of their fathers; wherefore, how much better are you than they, in the sight of your great Creator?” (Jacob 3:5)

 

Do others have hatred toward us?  Or at least some form of enmity?  Absolutely.  I have witnessed it many times.  But as is the case with the Lamanites, in most cases it is simply what they have been taught that they tightly hold onto.  The Book of Mormon speaks on this.  In 2 Nephi 10: 5 it tells us the main reason that has driven this enmity from the beginning, that even blinded people from the truth of Christ. “Because of priestcrafts and iniquities, they at Jerusalem will stiffen their necks against him, that he be crucified.”  Here we learn that priestcrafts (paid clergy, and now paid social media) are often the ones driving this.  In addition, the need to hold onto iniquities.  This can also be the need to hold onto beliefs such as easy believism and their incorrect assumption that we are a works-based church.  Again, in The Book of Mormon we learn they are, “Humble followers of Christ; nevertheless, they are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men.” (2 Nephi 28: 14) 

Of course I cannot make a final judgement, but it is my understanding that those humble followers of Christ will have the veil drawn from their eyes in the next life, and all necessary ordinances will be offered them.  We still very much want other followers of Christ to join with us, for there is more--much more.  “I do not bring it (my gospel) to destroy that which they have received, but to build it up.”  (D & C 10:52)

Why The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints (Mormon)?

This is a monumental question.  Often, throughout my life, the moment someone found that I was “Mormon”, I immediately felt contempt from them.  Why is that?  The cause of this contempt is usually derived from something they heard from someone not of our faith, and it usually was either untrue, exaggerated or simply misunderstood in some way.

 

The church is thought of as something new, and when religion is concerned, this brings it immediately under suspicion.  It can be threatening, especially to clergy who could feel their livelihood is on the line.  The specific doctrine may be different, if not distasteful, especially if not understood.  New scripture was introduced, which again can be threatening.  I hope at this point, anyone familiar with the Bible can see that all of these problems occurred with the people of God, and even with Jesus and his followers.  

 

At this point the apologist in me is strongly geared to address these issues, but in this instance, I want to go a different direction.  I think probably the best and most concise book to answer the most common of these, what I call stumbling blocks, can be found in the book, Are Mormons Christian, by Stephen Robinson.

 

An anti-Mormon show I was watching threw out some of these things and more, then asked the question, why would anyone believe these things?  Good question.  I want to answer.

 

Let me make it clear that I do not believe any other church to be inherently bad.  To me it is obvious that they do much good.  They give many people meaning in life.  They serve their fellow man.  Their prayers are answered.  God loves all his children, and miracles can be had at their hands.  And they have much truth.  They do serve a purpose.  In my mind, among other (good) things, they are as a John the Baptist--preparing the way.  They can lead people to Christ, but at the same time limit how far that relationship can go with man-made doctrines, in addition to denying God-given doctrines.  At times they can actually lead people into strange paths, away from God.

 

My uncle, in his own search for religion would ask clergy three questions--where did I come from, why am I here, and where am I going after this life?  It wasn’t until LDS missionaries came to his door for him to be satisfied with an answer.  Beyond having answers to these questions, we have answers to many others.

 

“Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.” (Amos 3:7) The church is, “built upon the foundation of apostles and prophets.” (Eph 2:20) Very high on the why list is this--we have living prophets and apostles.  What a tremendous blessing!  When I hear them speak, I can feel their wisdom and authority.  And speaking of this authority, it is through their keys, that we can administer saving ordinances.  Baptism, for example, is done in many churches, but not with authority.  In Acts 19:3-5 we plainly see what is to be done in this case, "Paul said unto them, unto what were ye baptized?  They said unto John's baptism (like John told us).  Then said Paul... that they should believe on... Christ Jesus.  When they heard this, they were baptized (again, but now with proper authority) in the name of the Lord Jesus."

This authority was restored, not through a mere belief in the Bible, and not through a mortal man, but directly through Christ himself or his sent messengers.  John the Baptist and Peter, James and John came and restored both priesthoods, Moses committed the keys of the gathering of Israel, Elias committed the keys of the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham, Elijah appeared and committed the keys of his dispensation as promised by Malachi--the keys to join families together in eternal relationships. (Malachi 4:5-6, Matt 16:19)

 

The idea of a restoration is not new.  It is a recurring theme throughout the Bible.  Noah, Abraham, Moses, Samuel, Isaiah and others were restorers.  Jesus called the religious leaders of his generation fallen, putting it nicely, but he was there to bring them back into the light.  The method each dispensation came out of apostacy was through a living prophet.  If God is the same yesterday, today and forever (Hebrews 13:8), why would this not be the case in our day?  Why has it always been the case that believing in dead prophets is easier than believing in a living one?

 

With living prophets comes new revelations, which often results in new scripture.  What a blessing!  New revelations for new problems.  (Noah's revelation to build an arc was not very relevant to Moses.)  For me personally, The Book of Mormon is what turned on the light for me.  It is full of truth and inspiration for our day.  As Elder Patrick Kearon has said, “The assurances in The Book of Mormon repeatedly remind us that our father in heaven and our Savior love us beyond anything we can imagine.”

 

In the Bible, the last days are referred to as the, “Dispensation of the fulness of times.” (Ephesians 1:10) In addition it speaks of the “restitution of all things.” (Acts 3:21) What does this mean?  It means that in this dispensation, all the ordinances, practices, rituals, and knowledge had by all people of God throughout history, will be had in our day.  Yes, that even meant polygamy for a time.  But it also means access to many other great things.  It means we can add light to nagging, age old problems, like The Problem of Evil, but it also means we can answer today’s problems.  It means we can know and practice rituals and ordinances and make covenants had by the ancients, and other peoples from time to time throughout history.  Many of these practices, that were common to the ancients, may seem unfamiliar and odd today, but God would nevertheless have his people practice them.  It means we can know with clarity our value and our potential, even that we can become, “heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ.” (Romans 8:17)

 

As much as some like to claim these things are from the imagination of Joseph Smith, the evidence to the contrary is there for all to see.  If the church is truly a restoration, would we not see these beliefs and practices in our history as the word implies?  The resounding answer is yes!  If we look at what the very early Christians believed, we can see the supposedly “new” doctrine there--even those things that many have a problem with.1 Beyond that, if we look at the most ancient civilizations throughout the world, again would we not expect the same?  Again, a decisive yes, and we do!  Keeping in mind man’s disposition to change and distort throughout time, we can still see common beliefs that are unique to the restored gospel--especially those seen in our Temple.2 

 

What is even more astonishing is that many of these things were unknown in the time of Joseph Smith.  Just one example is from the very first Pharoah of Egypt, who would have lived very close to the time of Noah.  Written on the walls of his temple are very specific acts and words that would be meaningless to the world, but well-known to those very familiar with the LDS Temple endowment.3 Egyptian was not even being translated at the time of Joseph Smith.

 

The Law of Moses was given to the children of Israel because this is what they wanted.  The Lord wanted them to have much more--to have the Law of the Gospel.  But he allowed them their free agency.  “The law was added for transgression” until the coming of Christ (Gal 3:19-20) But they are not alone in this phenomenon.  In my view, Muhammad, Confucius, Gandhi, and Buddha, among others, also brought the people of their day what they wanted--what they would accept.  God would rather have a people that cherish families, and strive to do right than to be totally atheistic in nature.  But if they would, he would much rather have them know and become much, much more.

 

Free agency is still and will always be in effect.  We have a smorgasbord of beliefs out there to match what we want to believe--making our chosen way to God easy or hard, popular or strange, or even non-existent.  This is a Biblical prophecy, “For the time is coming when people will not put up with sound doctrine, but having itching ears, they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own desires, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander away to myths. (2 Tim 4:3-4, NRSV)  But the admonition of The Church of Jesus Christ is that we can come to a personal knowledge of the right way from God himself, and not have to rely on man, or our own limited understanding. (see James 1:5, Moroni 10:4)  

Are we Christian?  Joseph Smith stated, "The fundamental principles of our religion is the testimony of the apostles and prophets concerning Jesus Christ, that he died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended up into heaven, and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it."

Helping people come to the fulness of Christ should be our goal.  "The worth of souls is great in the sight of God." (D&C 18:10) "How great the importance to make these things known unto the inhabitants of the earth, that they may know that there is no flesh that can dwell in the presence of God, save it be through the merits, and mercy, and grace of the Holy Messiah... he shall make intercession for all the children of men." (2 Nephi 2:8-9)  "Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ." (Ephesians 4:13) The Church of Jesus Christ is not “new” but in reality, very old and very Biblical, and modernized to our day through a living prophet.  The heavens are open!  Come world and see!  

 

1-See for example, Restoring The Ancient Church, by Barry Bickmore

 

2-Many books have been written showing this to be the case.  One college professor in particular has brought these together in a series of podcasts found at theancienttradition.com.  The caption states, “Substantial textual, cosmological, theological, symbolical, architectural, liturgical, and mythological evidence indicates a pure religious tradition was imparted to human beings “in the beginning”.  Abundant evidence in the ancient record indicates a pure, theologically rich religious tradition was imparted to human beings in deep antiquity.   Although it appears in the modern age, with the proliferation of religious traditions and denominations, that substantive theological differences separate religious groups, there is substantial evidence in the ancient record to suggest that the multifarious religious traditions of today are descendants of a single religious tradition imparted to human beings “in the beginning”-  Under deep scrutiny, the core theological and cosmological tenets of each of the major religious traditions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism), folk traditions (African, Chinese, Native American, and Aboriginal) and other religious traditions (Shintoism, Taoism, Sikhism, and Jainism) reveal striking parity.  Such findings not only necessitate the reassessment of religious studies en todo, they also invite us to attempt a reconstitution of the original religious tradition, which, undoubtedly, is likely to have widespread theological implications, especially among aspirants seeking undefiled theology- the “true tradition”.”

 

3-Although this also can be found from various authors, my source is from Bruce H Porter.  He earned his bachelor’s degree in Ancient Near Eastern Studies, Masters in Middle Eastern Studies with an emphasis in Semitic languages.  He has studied Hebrew Aramaic, Akkadian, Coptic, Egyptian Hieroglyphics, and other languages.  Because of the sacred nature, I will refrain from stating the specific source.

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

Is The Temple Really Necessary?

In John 13, during the last supper, the Savior began to wash the feet of his apostles.  When he came to Peter, he pulled away saying, “Thou shalt never wash my feet.”  In return Jesus said, “If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.”  What a statement!  Never before in scripture is there any indication of the necessity of allowing your feet to be washed.  I have to wonder what Peter was thinking.  “Wait a minute.  I have been with you from the beginning.  I have been faithful.  You taught us of faith, of repentance, of baptism, and many other qualities we should strive for.  I have done these things.  You never said this was necessary to, “have part with you.”  This is new, and frankly a little weird.  I just don’t get it.”  Wisely, Peter quickly put his faith into practice and allowed this ritualistic ordinance, which was highly symbolic and meant to teach the apostles a great lesson.  It was a blessing beyond what they knew and understood at the time.

 

One thing we learn here is when further blessings are offered from on high, we either accept these blessings or our progress stops there.  This lesson is everywhere in life.  For example, we are offered to learn how to drive a car.  It may be strange and new, and for some very hard, but if we put ourselves out there and learn, the blessings are enormous.

 

Another thing this can be related to is Temple blessings.  There are some who resent what they perceive as the strictness of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints.  The covenants we make in the temple only adds to their antagonism.  Some may complain that the necessity of Temples is not in the scriptures, so they are in fact not necessary for salvation.  Given the esoteric nature of temples, I would expect that we not find references to the temple in scripture, but in fact there are many references to Temple ordinances, though not always obvious.  But, as D&C 124: 41 tells us, some acts in the Temple are to be revealed in this, the "Dispensation of the Fulness of Times", which have never been done in the Temple since, "the foundation of the world."  At least a change is to be expected, since the Law of Moses, which included animal sacrifice in the Temple, was no longer needed. 

There are also many extra-biblical references to the Temple as well. Just for example, in Pistis Sophia, Mary Magdalene approaches Jesus, worried about those that have passed who have not received the "mysteries of the kingdom of light."  Jesus answers, "If they be sinners who have passed from the body without repentance, and if ye celebrate the mystery of that ineffable (too sacred to repeat) for them..., the receivers of Melchisedec shall come to find them, and shall bring them unto the light."1 

In the temple there are symbols, ritual and covenants that can seem strange, new and hard to understand at first.  It can be a bigger challenge for some, but the higher blessings can be literally endless.

 

Temples are known to have existed in every known ancient society.  A number of early Jewish and Christian documents deal with elements found in modern LDS temples. As such, they are confirmation of the antiquity of the temple rites.  Religious truth was taught in these temples.  We learn the way they taught was often through story, sacred ceremony and ritual.  When one examines the oldest ancient religious writings, symbols, sacred architecture and rituals around the world, we can easily see this.2 Which begs the question, what was and is so important about temples which caused them to be such a huge part of every ancient society?

 

We can expect, and in fact we see, that with imperfect man, the meaning and delivery of the rituals and symbols in these temples were changed and distorted through time.  However, we can examine the most ancient of writings to uncover clues as to what the purpose of these temples were in their least disturbed form, with some tantalizing answers, but this can be challenging and can leave us with an incomplete or dissatisfactory answer, especially given the esoteric nature of temples, not to mention the death and resurrection of Christ necessarily changed much of it as well.

I feel lucky I found a podcast put on by a professor of the antiquities called The Ancient Tradition.  In this lengthy podcast, it brings to light the common religious traditions of the most ancient people.  I have found many instances that related directly to the LDS temple.  Just as an example, I had listened to several in a row that dealt with the Sacred Circle or Sacred Center, symbolizing the dwelling place of God.  Again and again the Sacred Circle was referenced, even showing how it is still used up to this day in certain ceremonies around the world.  I was just not getting it and it just seemed weird, until finally a light turned on, and I realized it related to the prayer circle that is performed during the endowment session.  I have been fortunate to have served as a temple worker and several times I have officiated the endowment session, which includes being mouthpiece for the prayer circle.  Since I made this connection, it has meant much more to me.

 

References to the prayer circle can be found throughout ancient Israel and into early Christianity.3 It was a common practice until in the Second Council of Nicaea in 787 AD, where it was voted out.  Thus leaving at the roadside another plain and precious truth.

Dallen H. Oaks has said, "Study and reason can find the truth, but only revelation can confirm it."  A true living prophet of God could help us to know the ultimate answer to this question of why we have temples.  Today we are blessed with exactly that.  Besides the obvious reasons--that of learning eternal truths, receiving ordinances, of making covenants, and offering these blessings to those who have departed, President Russell M. Nelson gave us further insight on this subject. 

 

“As we strive to live the higher laws of Jesus Christ, our hearts and our very natures begin to change.  The Savior lifts us above the pull of this fallen world by blessing us with great charity, humility, generosity, kindness, self-discipline, peace, and rest.”

 

“We can expect to receive answers to prayer, personal revelation, greater faith, strength, comfort, increased knowledge, and increased power.”

 

“Those who live the higher laws of Jesus Christ have access to His higher power.  Thus, covenant keepers are entitled to a special kind of rest that comes to them through their covenantal relationship with God.”

 

“Time in the temple will help you to think celestial and to catch a vision of who you really are, who you can become, and the kind of life you can have forever, Regular temple worship will enhance the way you see yourself and how you fit into God’s magnificent plan.  I promise you that.”

 

“Here is my promise.  Nothing will help you more to hold fast to the iron rod than worshipping in the temple as regularly as your circumstances permit.  Nothing will protect you more as you encounter the world’s mists of darkness.  Nothing will bolster your testimony of the Lord Jesus Christ and His Atonement or help you understand God’s magnificent plan more.  Nothing will soothe your spirit more during times of pain.  Nothing will open the heavens more.  Nothing!

    The temple is the gateway to the greatest blessings God has in store for each of us, for the temple is the only place on earth where we may receive all of the blessings promised to Abraham.”

 

“Entering into a covenant relationship with God binds us to Him in a way that makes everything about life easier.  Please do not misunderstand me: I did not say that making covenants makes life easy.  In fact, expect opposition, because the adversary does not want you to discover the power of Jesus Christ.  But yoking yourself with the Savior means you have access to His strength and redeeming power.” 

"He is accelerating the pace at which we are building temples.  He is increasing our ability to help gather Israel."4

Laws, rules, commandments, and covenants to keep them, are not meant to be a bad thing.  They are not meant to take away agency.  In fact, agency will never be taken away.  Besides promoting order, commandments lift us up as people--as children of God.  D&C 130:20, 21 tells us, "There is a law irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated.  And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated." Also in D&C 88:34, "That which is governed by law is also preserved by law and protected and sanctified by the same."

The Law of Moses was only given to the children of Israel because they would not accept the higher law.  It became a stepping stone to Christ.  In Galatians 3:24, Paul tells us, The law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ."  Joseph Smith taught, "The fundamental principles of our religion is the testimony of the apostles and prophets concerning Jesus Christ, that he died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended up into heaven, and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it." As we come unto Christ, it seems obvious that we would continue line upon line in our progression, which may include higher laws and covenants.  

Our father in heaven is and will continue to lead us in a heavenly direction.  He knows it can and will be difficult at times, but we are not alone--as we seek his help, he will be there to guide us.  But as the offer to receive more is given to us, we would be wise to put our faith into practice as Peter did, and follow.  We have our agency to walk away, but if we do, I hear Jesus saying, if you do not, "thou hast no part with me."

 

1-As found in Sacred Symbols, Alonzo Gaskill, pg. 20, 21

2-As given in the podcasts, TheAncientTradition.com

 

3-For ancient Christian prayer circles, see Hugh Nibley, “The Early Christian Prayer Circle”, BYU Studies 19/1 (Fall 1978): 41-47, reprinted as chapter 3 in Hugh Nibley, Mormonism and Early Christianity (Salt Lake City: FARMS and Deseret Book Company, 1987), 45-99, and Hugh Nibley, Old Testament and Related Studies (Salt Lake City: FARMS and Deseret Book Company, 1986), 158-63, 182-3. For LDS prayer circles, see D. Michael Quinn, “Latter-day Saint Prayer Circle,” BYU Studies 19/1 (Fall 1978): 79-105, and the entries for “Altar” and “Prayer Circle” in Daniel H. Ludlow, ed., Encyclopedia of Mormonism (New York: Macmillan, 1992). 

4-Liahona, “Overcome the World and Find Rest” Oct 2022, and, “Rejoice in the Gift of Priesthood Keys” April 2024

  

An excellent video on The Blessings of higher covenants: here

Was God once a man?

“As man now is, God once was, and as God now is, man may become” --Lorenzo Snow. 

Irenaeus, an early church father, said nearly the same thing.  “We have not been made gods from the beginning, but at first men, then at length gods but following the only true and steadfast Teacher, the Word of God, our Lord Jesus Christ, who did, through His transcendent love, become what we are, that He might bring us to be even what He is Himself. - 1

This, the eternal regression of Gods, is without a doubt one of the most inigmatic teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.  It is far from core doctrine but would be classified squarely on the esoteric side. There is no set doctrine on this matter one way or the other and there are differences of opinion within the church.  Many members do not believe this.  This would not be found in any mainline church lesson manual, nor would it be taught from the pulpit.  As I suggested, not all Latter-day Saints accept the idea of a regression of divine beings and are still fully accepted members.  Mormon thought on this point can be hazy, both in and out of the church.  

With that said, if this doctrine is taken as truth, it easily challenges ideas that must be reckoned with such as, God is unchangeable, God cannot fall, and the eternality of God.  

Right or wrong, understood or not, one can make an appropriate claim that this has been taught in the past, not only in our church, but in the Bible as well.  Just as Jesus Christ is a glorified human being, so it can be said of the Father.  Like father, like son.  To the creedal Christians out there--If one believes Jesus is THE only God there is, then it should be plain--Jesus was a man.

There is much in ancient Christian literature to show a belief that man can become God (theosis), however, there is much less available to show that they believed or understood that God was once a man. Besides the above quote by Irenaeus, interesting examples are found in the Armenian literature. This material shows that at least some Christians may indeed have had a belief that God was once a man.

For example, in one translation of an ancient Armenian Christian document which Michael Stone entitles “Concerning Adam, Eve and the Incarnation,” we find, following Eve’s telling Satan that they would die if they ate the fruit of the tree, that the serpent replies, “That is not so! God was a man like you. When he ate of the fruit of this tree he became God of all.” 2

There is biblical scripture that supports concepts conducive to the idea that God was once a man. One of these is John 5:19-20. “Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. For the Father loveth the son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth.”

Notice this is given in the present tense, "seeth."  But it would not seem to make sense that the Father is doing the same things Jesus is doing at the same time.  But Jesus is rather presently seeing what the Father did.  It can be surmised the Father showed Christ a vision of his own experiences so that Christ could carry these details out. But present tense or not, we are told Jesus follows what the Father did.

Whether God's past was as a man or not, there is a multitude of scripture that can be used to support the idea that God is a holy man with a physical body in the present. One of these is Hebrews 1:3. “Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person.” Christ could only be the exact representation of the Father if the Father himself possessed a body of some sort. In fact, some who wish to avoid what I feel is the plain meaning of Hebrews 1:3 actually go so far as to separate the natures of Christ or declare that the passage could not possibly infer that the Father is embodied.

To suggest that God was once a man seems to be problematic with biblical scriptures such as Hebrews 13:8, suggesting that God has eternally been God.  Let me quote biblical scholar Stephen E. Robinson on this point.  "The biblical concept of “eternity” is problematic, and most constructions translated “forever” or “eternal” actually read “to the end of the age” or just “to the age.” Indeed, the words usually rendered “forever” or “eternal” are the Greek and Hebrew words for “age” (aion and olam respectively).  First century Jews understood eternity to consist of successive ages or eons--all with the parameter of the beginning and the end.

 

God is the First and the Last, the only being who exists from the beginning to the end (Isa 44:6, Rev 1:8), that is, from the first moment of creation to the last.  This is clearly a temporal frame.  The phrase “before all ages: (Jude 25) simply means “from the beginning,” from before the succession of ages began--before the clock started ticking.  God did exist as God “before all ages” (from the beginning), but that still does not say anything about before the beginning."3

 

The statement "God is the same yesterday, today, and forever" is a declaration of God's immutability, meaning He remains constant and unchanging in His character, nature, and promises. 

Is it not correct to say that God is exactly as the Bible describes Him—an exalted Man?

The Savior says over and over again that he is the “Son of Man.” It seems plain to me that Jesus is indeed the Son of God; therefore, God must be a Man since God is His Father and Jesus is His Son.

Romans 8:28 tells us that we are to be, 'conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."  Like father, like son, like all of us.

We are made in the image of God, therefore, God must look like us and we like Him.  James says that men are made in “the similitude of God” (James 3:9).

God is our Eternal Father. He created us in his image, in His exact similitude. We are His offspring (Acts 17:29). If we are His offspring and made in His similitude, and are in His image, then logic dictates that He must be a Man.

Jesus said that if we have seen Him, we have seen the Father (John 14:9). Jesus was a man, therefore, if they are identical, God must also be a man.  What else would, or could He be if He is the Father of Christ and if Christ is in His express image?  

His order in all of creation is that one kind will reproduce to more of the same kind.  Dogs will beget dogs.  Trees will beget trees.  Why would he deviate from this pattern when He begat us?  We are of the same species, but it's like an acorn and an oak tree.

He said to Mary, “Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.” (John 20:17) Among other things, this passage teaches that Jesus is not the same being as His and our Father. He is God’s Son, a separate and distinct being. If God were an omnipresent spirit, as some believe, then Christ would not have had to ascend to Him, because the Father would have in fact been Him already. But if God is both Jesus’ Father and Mary’s Father, what must He be?

Stephen saw a vision (view, sight, see, form, shape, appearance, position, location, etc.) of Jesus standing on the right hand (righthand side, not to the left, or beneath, or above, but to the side) of God the Father (a being, a person, someone who occupies space so that Jesus can be to the right of Him), not an amorphous, formless nothing, not an invisible spirit (Acts 7:56).

The form of the Father and Son were never fundamentally different, in scripture, in thought, or in good logic. The heavens tell us in every way, God is a man just like His Son. Straightforward and simple.  If He tells us we can inherit all that the Father has, well, one thing He has is an eternal nature--that He has been God through all eternity (assuming today's understanding).  

Then if we can inherit this eternality from Him, did He inherit it as well? As Stephen E. Robinson puts it, "Does the infinite not bestow infinity upon the finite with which it is joined together in one?" 3 

See minutes 11 to 15 here.

 

1- Against Heresies, Vol. 5: Preface; TANF vol. 1, p.526. In AH 4:38

2- Michael E. Stone, Armenian Apocrypha Relating to Adam and Eve (Leiden: E.J. Brill, 1996), 25.

3- How Wide the Divide, p.92.

 

Scriptural Enigmas?

Scriptural Enigmas?

 

Joseph Smith was asked regarding the Bible, wherein do you differ from other sects?  "We believe the Bible, and all other sects profess to believe their interpretations of the Bible." 1

“Let the Bible speak for itself” -Don Fleming *

 

Genesis 1: 26, 27, “And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness… So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him: male and female created he them.”

 

Exodus 33: 11, “And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.’

 

Exodus 40: 12, 13: “And thou shalt bring Aaron and his sons unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and wash them with water. And thou shalt put upon Aaron the holy garments, and anoint him, and sanctify him.”

 

Leviticus17: 2, “Ye shall be holy: for I the Lord your God am holy.”

Deuteronomy 16:21, "Thou shalt not plant thee a grove of any trees near unto the altar of the Lord thy God."

Numbers 27: 23, “And he laid his hands upon him, and gave him a charge, as the Lord commanded by the hand of Moses.”

 

2 Samuel 12: 8, “I gave thee thy master’s house, and thy master’s wives into thy bosom.”

 

1 Kings 8: 13, “I have surely built thee an house to dwell in, a settled place for thee to abide in for ever.”

 

2 Chronicles 20:20, “Believe his prophets, so shall ye prosper.”

 

Job 38:4-7, “When I laid the foundations of the earth… the sons of God shouted for joy.”

 

Psalms 45:7, “Therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.”

 

Psalms 62:12, “Unto thee, O Lord, belongeth mercy: for thou renderest to every man according to his work.”

 

Psalms 82:6, “I have said, Ye are gods: and all of you are children of the most High.”

Proverbs 3:8, "It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones."

Ecclesiastes 12:13, “Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.”

 

Isaiah 14:12, “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer?”

Isaiah 22:20-25, "I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle...and the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder...and I will fasten him as a nail in a sure place."1

Isaiah 45:1, "Thus saith the Lord to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden"

Jeremiah 1:5, “Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.”

 

Jeremiah 29:6, “Take ye wives, and beget sons and daughters.”

 

Amos 3:7, “Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.”

 

Amos 8:11, “Behold the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land… of hearing the words of the Lord.”

 

Matt 3:16, 17, “And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of god descending like a dove, and lighting upon him; And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”

Matt 5:48, "Be ye therefore perfect."

 

Matt 7:23, “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.”

Matt 16:19, "I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

 

Matt 24:13, “He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.”

 

Luke 11:49, “I will send them prophets and apostles.”

 

Luke 14:32, “They said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way?”

Luke 24:39-43, "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have...Have ye any meat?  And they gave him a piece of broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.  And he took it, and did eat before them."

 

John 10:13, “The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.”

 

John 17:3, “This is eternal life, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.”

 

John 17:21-23, “That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us… that they may be one, even as we are one.”

John 20:17, "Jesus saith unto her, "Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.""

 

Acts 1:26, “And the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.”

 

Acts 2: 37-38, “They were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, What shall we do?  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you.”

 

Acts 3:20-21, “He shall send Jesus Christ… Whom the heaven must receive until the time of restitution of all things.”

 

Acts 7:55-56, “He, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, and said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing of the right hand of God.”

Acts 8:17, "Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost."

 

Acts 20:29, “After my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.”

 

Romans 8:16-17, “We are the children of God: and if children, then heirs; Heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ.”

 

1 Cor 6:9, “The unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”

 

1 Cor 8:5-6, “Even though there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as in fact there are many gods and many lords—yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.” #

 

1 Cor 12:28, “God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets.”

1 Cor 13:2, "Though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing."

 

1 Cor 15: 29, “What will those people do who receive baptism on behalf of the dead?  If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized on their behalf?” #

1 Cor 15:41, "There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars."

 

2 Cor 12:2, “Such an one caught up to the third heaven.”

 

Eph 1:10, “In the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ.”

 

Eph 2:20, “Are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone.”

 

Eph 4:11-14, “He gave some apostles; and some prophets; and some evangelists; and some pastors and teachers; for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ; till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God…that we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine.”

James 2:24, "By works a man is justified, and not by faith only."

 

2 Thes 2:2-3, “The day of Christ is at hand… that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first.”

 

Tim 1:9, “According to his own purpose… was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.”

 

2 Tim 4:3-4, “The time is coming when people will not put up with sound doctrine, but having itching ears, they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own desires, and will turn away from listening to the truth.” #

 

James 2:17, “Faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.”

 

1 Peter 3:18-20, “Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the spirit; by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; which sometime were disobedient.”

 

1 Peter 4:6, “For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.”

2 Peter 1:10, "Give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall."

Revelation 2:17, "To him that overcometh... will give him a white stone and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it."

Revelation 3:21, "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne."

Revelation 12:7-9, “There was a war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon…And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the devil.”

 

 1-Teachings of The Prophet Joseph Smith, p119.

 

*While it is recognized that some scripture may need some help hermeneutically or otherwise, the vast majority of scripture is to be understood as is—easy enough for a child to understand, as it was meant to be.

 

# NRSV